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TOPIC: Open Letter To Mr Awesome..

Open Letter To Mr Awesome.. 12 years 9 months ago #250530

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stonic;249872 wrote:
Like some folks here, I never knew much about Twin Galaxies, outside of the occasional article that would appear in Electronic Games and other mags, up until a few years ago when I met Walter Day and a few other TG people at the Classic Gaming Expo. But in the past year, the more I talked with people and researched through TG's database and message forum, the more issues I found like this. Roy is hardly the first person to have a long-standing record pulled for questionable (or sometimes outright false) reasons. A good example is Todd Roger's 2600 15 million+ Donkey Kong score, which was removed by former chief referee Robert Mruczek ("rtm"):http://www.twingalaxies.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=930May 2003 - 1st mention of DK fireball problemhttp://www.twingalaxies.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2733 July 2004 - rtm publicly acknowledges Todd’s marathons (but yet removed them)http://www.twingalaxies.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6247&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60 (pages 5 and 6)Nov 2005 - I noticed that Todd's score was removed from the database. Someone else stated that it's been gone for some time. rtm states the reason is Todd used a different cart version (than his).http://www.twingalaxies.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7350 May 2006 - rtm starts rewording his original reason for removing Todd’s DK score.http://www.twingalaxies.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8363October 2006 - rtm gives no less than 3 different reasons for Todd’s DK score - none of which have ever been proven to be trueJust what is it with TG and Donkey Kong scores? :p If you've read through all the above conversations, you'll see that the only Donkey Kong cart that's possibly different is Robert's (which he has yet to offer for inspection to myself or anyone else) when actually the real reason is Robert simply isn't as good a player as Todd; he can't get past a specific point in the game that Todd (and others) have - therefore Todd must be using a different cart :eyes: As I said, this is one of several questionable actions/decisions by some of Twin Galaxies's staff. Thankfully, the 2 referees responsible for most of the mess with the home console records (and the Atari 2600 in particular) - Ron Corcoran (who started TG on the path of accepting and treating emulator scores equally with console scores, along with verifying his own scores) and Robert Mruczek (who basically picked up where Ron left off, while also selectively removing or relabeling scores at whim...) - are no longer TG referees. And since Mruczek just quit TG 2 months into an effort to try and straighten out very mess, it will likely fall to someone else (with even less relative knowledge and common sense) to finish.My advice is to avoid TG until they get some real leadership there.
Took me a while to make my way through all of that, but I learned a lot...I think. ;) Thanks for taking the time to post here, stonic, it sheds much light on former and current TG practices...and as you so rightly pointed out, many of the problems regarding that issue carry over to this one.
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Open Letter To Mr Awesome.. 12 years 9 months ago #250799

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There is supposedly a summary and video of T.T. record here,http://www.wayoftherodent.com/features/TTMissileCommandWalkthrough.htm
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Open Letter To Mr Awesome.. 12 years 9 months ago #250819

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Isn't it nice how the judges write up the article about the record being broken. My thinking is that Judges shouldn't be doing P.R. for the players.I wonder how many write-ups have "our own" before the player name.
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Open Letter To Mr Awesome.. 12 years 9 months ago #250976

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I just want to add some "evidence" to the situation that I don't believe has been posted yet. The following comes directly from "Twin Galaxies' Official Video Game & Pinball Book of World Records" published in 1998."Until Twin Galaxies established tournament settings for Missle Command, it had become a marathon game, easily played by most good players until they died of boredom. To bring it back to life, I (Walter Day) said, "Ok, Missle Command players, you only get six cities, with no additional bonuses." This, I (Walter Day) announced, would be the official Twin Galaxies Tournament Settings (TGTS) for Missle Command from now on. (Roy) Shildt never shied away from the challenge. He came to Victoria (British Columbia, Canada) determined to master these newer, harder settings and he did it as I (Walter Day) stood and watched. Because the game moves fast, it took only 45 minutes before he (Roy Shildt) reached 1,695,265 points for a new record. David Boehm, at Guinness' headquarters, chose Shildt as the only player to ever have his photograph published in the video game section. Because Shildt had had a big falling out with the other players, a major dispute erupted because he played his game after the time deadline. The other playersdemanded that his performance not be included. I had agreed to let them participate in decision making on the contest. However, Shildt's score went into the Guinness Book of World REcords because it was too unbelievable to not receive full credit."The part about other players contesting Shildt's score because he was playing the game past the predetermined time limit is interesting. A few paragraphs prior, Walter Day writes "When a player complained about (Chris) Ayra getting to play past the time limit (on Mrs. Pac Man), I said "The contest is over, but - like in football - the ball is in play, so as long as the ball is alive, the game is alive."If Walter Day would do that for Chris Ayra when he was attempting to break the Mrs. Pac Man score, why would he imply that the scenerio was any different for Roy Shildt's record breaking attempt. The same principles apply IMO. Also, Day confirms that he was there witnessing Shildt's record breaking run and also stated that the game was played on TGTS. That is coming right from Day's own mouth.Also, the Missle Command record in the book is presented as such:Missle Command (Atari)Difficuly: hardestStart: 6 cities; Bonus: noneNote: The are numerous chips which allow the player to score faster than the original chip. Scores are only accepted for the original chipTournament setting:1,695,265 Roy Shildt W. Los Angeles, CA 6/30/85Factory settings - Marathon80,364,995 Victor Ali Cinedome 7; San Francisco, CA 12/23/8272,547,630 Kevin Baughan Video City; Dayton, OH 11/10/8260,220,510 Roy Shildt Capt. Video; Los Angeles. CA 4/6/82Additionally, Roy Shildt was 15th out of 22 players for the "Player of the Year" award in 1985. Of note, Billy Mitchell did not even perform in the contest to determine the winner.In my personal opinion, I think that there are sour grapes for all parties involved. I believe that Roy was (and still is) is great video game player as his past and current scores can atest to. He comes off as a bitter old man who is clinging on to his last bit of stardom. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with that considering that Twin Galaxies seems to have a hidden agenda in the whole situation. As commented on earlier, it seems like Twin Galaxies is a "good 'ole boys" network where the members involved are only looking out for their own interests. To use a sports analogy like Scot, Mr. Awesome is like Ty Cobb. Cobb was a huge asshole and every few people liked him. That doesn't mean that he wasn't a great baseball player and deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. Roy also acheived greatness at Missle Command and derserves his recognition as well.
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Open Letter To Mr Awesome.. 12 years 9 months ago #251051

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tdb30_;250819 wrote:
Isn't it nice how the judges write up the article about the record being broken. My thinking is that Judges shouldn't be doing P.R. for the players.I wonder how many write-ups have "our own" before the player name.
I'm fairly sure the "our own" was an addition by The Way of the Rodent and wasn't in the original Twin Galaxies writeup. While the article gave Robert the byline, it looks like the introductory paragraph was written by The Way of the Rodent. The Way of the Rodent is a British gaming web page and Tony is British, so they added the "our very own TT".-George
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Open Letter To Mr Awesome.. 12 years 9 months ago #251116

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tdb30 wrote:
Isn't it nice how the judges write up the article about the record being broken. My thinking is that Judges shouldn't be doing P.R. for the players.I wonder how many write-ups have "our own" before the player name.
Try reading the whole of that paragraph again. Way Of The Rodent used Robert M's write up with permission. The bit you refer to are the words of WOTR not Twin Galaxies or Robert M.I've just listened to Scot and Roy's follow up interview, where Roy is responding to my first post in this thread. And I'm sorry to say the amount of misinformation AGAIN is beyond belief. I really do have better things to do than go into loads of detail, but just a couple of points:1. The screen size makes no difference whatsoever to trackball speed - why don't you get one of Roy's "engineer" friends to hook up your MC machine to a 60 foot projector and see if you need to adjust the trackball settings to compensate - you don't. Roy doesn't seem to want to understand this. I wonder why? Could it be because he knows that the one and only manual ever printed for the sit down cockpit MC machine confirms the correct switch setting for a large trackball (the type of trackball we both play with) as OFF? I suspect so. Yet Scot allows himself to be persuaded that its incorrect because, according to Mr Shildt, that particular version of MC uses a 25" screen and therefore it needs to be OFF. Sorry, but that's horseshit. It needs to be set to OFF as the manual says, because it uses the 4” trackball. The same trackball used in the upright machine that we both play, and which is the same machine in your arcade there. Nothing at all to do with the screen size. You can hook up a Missile Command game to one of the plasma screens in Times Square and play. You do not need to adjust the trackball settings to compensate.I repeat, the switch we are talking about refers to trackball type only (2.5" or 4"), not screen size. This ends the argument. There is no argument. These are the facts.2. The 2nd printing of the manual for the normal upright MC machine (which is the machine we play on) makes no reference to the small trackball at all, despite what Mr Awesome says. Again, this can be checked by anyone - instead, Scott laps all this up as fact and is off down the road of conspiracy. When I've got a minute, I'll post up all three versions of the manual, so everyone can see.There's other stuff too, but I'm tired of correcting Mr Awesome's lies and made up assumptions.Scot, please don't take this the wrong way, but you really do need to check the accuracy of what this guy says on your show before you start agreeing with him live on air and whipping yourself and your listeners into a frenzy of excitement. I have nothing to gain here - I'm talking about black and white "in print" facts - not my opinions or assumptions - facts. Most of what he is saying about the factual things like trackball speed and quoting things from various manuals is bullshit.Your enthusiasm is great, but on this one its based largely on hot air I'm afraid.What pisses all over Roy’s argument is that he doesn’t actually know what the settings were when he played his game in 1984. He didn’t check the switch when he played then (let's face it he wouldn't have - no player did back then), and he cannot prove what the settings were. When you get him to concede that he doesn’t know for sure whether the switch was on or off, we might get somewhere close to the truth. This might end the “ I played on harder settings” argument. He doesn’t know this, and cannot know this. Chances are, he played with the switch OFF - which were the correct settings at the time. Why not ask him to prove what he is saying Scot, instead of taking it as being true?I'll do what Mr Awesome did about 5 times during that interview and make an "informed best guess opinion". Mr Awesome, knows his score was beaten this year. The only thing he has left is to take advantage of a misprint in the 2nd print edition of the manual, and claim that he played on this incorrect setting, in a last desperate attempt to hang onto the one thing he has - his record. Unfortunately, until he can prove without doubt that he played with the switch ON when he got his record, all the evidence points to the fact that he was beaten fair and square this year.I'll say one more thing. If you are a good MC player on Marathon Settings (where it gives bonus cities), it doesn't take long to convert those skills to Tournament play (where you get no bonus cities). I started playing Tournament settings only two years ago, having not played the game at all for 20 years. When I did play it as a kid, it was on Marathon settings only. Adn I managed to get the world record within two years. So again with respect, Roy scoring 900k in your studio doesn't really prove a lot. I proves he is a great MC player, I have no doubt about that; but you cannot scientifically use his score in your studio as proof of anything done 20 years ago.TT
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Open Letter To Mr Awesome.. 12 years 9 months ago #251130

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For the record, Tony, I don't think many people here are disputing the validity of your score (I'm certainly not). I do, however, fail to follow your logic in making Roy prove anything regarding the record he set twenty years ago. Apparently, Walter himself was there and he signed off on it. In my mind, if a challenge wasn't raised (whether it be by Walter or anyone else around at the time) within a reasonable period of time after the score was recorded, then the time for challenging the score has passed and no further challenges should be permitted...end of discussion.If you can't see the logic in that, I'd suggest that some of you out there need to remove the blinders and start looking at Twin Galaxies and their practices a bit more critically.All the best,P.G.R.
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Open Letter To Mr Awesome.. 12 years 9 months ago #251138

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Only the 2nd printing of the Missile Command service manual shows R8#4=ON for the large Trakball. The 1st and 3rd printings show R8#4=OFF for the large Trakball. The 3rd printing, which is the last printing also states "Large Trak-Ball input (switch must be off for proper operation of upright Missile Command game)". Also the informational sheet attached to the back access panel which shipped with the game from the factory shows R8#4=OFF for the large Trakball! So there are at least 3 documents showing R8#4=OFF vs. 1 showing R8#4=ON. Lets look at that 2nd printing, it was done to support the new cocktail version of the game with the small Trakball, so if a typo was to be made, it probably would have happened during this 2nd printing. On top of this, the 3rd and last printing corrects this possible typo. So if Roy wants to believe that the second printing of the manual is the only correct documentation and that the other 3 documents are wrong, as well as the 3rd and last printing of the manual correcting this inconsistency then Roy must be very uninformed or in some kind of state of denial.It has been stated by Scot Rubin on 12/22/06 that the information sheet on the inside of the back panel “doesn't matter”. I find it interesting that Scot is not interested in getting all the existing factual material and make an educated decision on this issue. He seems to be content to go along with Roy Shildt and say that one and only one piece of documentation is correct and any other documentation like the back panel information shouldn’t be considered. Having seen the back panel information sheet, and seeing that it says R8#4=OFF I understand why they would not be interested in discussing this documentation. It has been stated several times on the internet radio show that the screen size has something to do with the R8#4 switch setting. Screen size has absolutely NOTHING to do with Trakball speed. It doesn't matter if it's 13 inches, 19 inches, or 25 inches, all the screens have the same number of scan lines and the same number of pixels per line. The pixels are smaller and the scan lines are closer on the 13 inch than on the 19 inch, but there are the same number. The switch setting has to do with compensating between the 2 Trakball types since they have different encoder wheel mechanisms! Why don't these people get someone technically competent to discuss this subject instead of making supposition and uneducated speculation.
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Open Letter To Mr Awesome.. 12 years 9 months ago #251155

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Flavious wrote:
For the record, Tony, I don't think many people here are disputing the validity of your score (I'm certainly not). I do, however, fail to follow your logic in making Roy prove anything regarding the record he set twenty years ago. Apparently, Walter himself was there and he signed off on it. In my mind, if a challenge wasn't raised (whether it be by Walter or anyone else around at the time) within a reasonable period of time after the score was recorded, then the time for challenging the score has passed and no further challenges should be permitted...end of discussion.If you can't see the logic in that, I'd suggest that some of you out there need to remove the blinders and start looking at Twin Galaxies and their practices a bit more critically.
Hello Flavious. I'm not sure where in my post my challenge was? Could you enlighten me? Getting him to play in the studio live is nothing to do with me at all - I'm simply questioning the logic of saying "900k today must mean his record is valid", based on my own experiences with the machine. I'm questioning the method not giving an opinion on whether he did the score - thats another topic in another thread. Please don't confuse the subject of Roy's score being removed by Twin Galaxies and the subject matter of this thread.As for questioning the trackball settings back then, I think its a perfectly reasonable question in the context of this thread (trackball settings), as it seems to be the basis of the bulk of Mr Awesome's gripes for the last couple of weeks on this subject."Mr Awesome" seems to be given an enourmous amount of slack by all concerned on this matter which he brings up again and again (trackball settings) and I find it quite puzzling. Atari Man - couldn't have put it better myself.
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Open Letter To Mr Awesome.. 12 years 9 months ago #251177

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Do your keyboards across the pond automatically pop an "o" in where they find it necessary or what? Just asking since you're either creating too much work for yourself in quoting, or going back in and manually adding an "o" into my username. A little odd, but amusing. :)Anyways, the following is what I perceived as being your "challenge" in your previous reply:
What pisses all over Roy’s argument is that he doesn’t actually know what the settings were when he played his game in 1984. He didn’t check the switch when he played then (let's face it he wouldn't have - no player did back then), and he cannot prove what the settings were. When you get him to concede that he doesn’t know for sure whether the switch was on or off, we might get somewhere close to the truth. This might end the “ I played on harder settings” argument. He doesn’t know this, and cannot know this. Chances are, he played with the switch OFF - which were the correct settings at the time. Why not ask him to prove what he is saying Scot, instead of taking it as being true?
You seem to be asking him to prove what his settings were twenty years ago. I understand that you're perhaps addressing it in a different context (legitimacy of his score vs. his attack on the legitimacy of yours), but I don't see the point in your argument in saying "make him prove what the settings were twenty years ago!" Obviously, that isn't going to happen and I'll reiterate, I don't think that's Roy's responsibility in the first instance. That responsibility fell on Twin Galaxies and Walter Day and if they screwed the pooch (as that's the only logical conclusion one can reach given the information), then Roy should not have his record-setting score (whether it be first or second place) taken away as a result of their errors.If you'll forgive me, the argument you're putting forth here is a bit senseless, seeing as how your name now sits at the top of the record books over at Twin Galaxies. You're only adding fuel to the fire by being so overzealous in your self-defense. I do, however, appreciate you taking the time to post here and would love to hear your opinion on what Twin Galaxies has done with Roy's score. I hope you're not afraid to answer that question truthfully for fear of Twin Galaxies turning it's back on you for being negative or critical as well.Best,P.G.R.
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