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TOPIC: Project NATAL and Milo: Evolution of Gaming or Downfall of Humanity?

Project NATAL and Milo: Evolution of Gaming or Downfall of Humanity? 10 years 6 months ago #370672

Thats the feedback Im talkin about
[gamercard]J0HN McCLANE[/gamercard]PSN ID: J0HN-666-McCLANE
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Project NATAL and Milo: Evolution of Gaming or Downfall of Humanity? 10 years 6 months ago #370681

  • Wampa_One
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Lord Moon;370461 wrote:
I don't see controllers going away either. In Microsoft's case I see it easily being used in conjunction with Natal.
Then what is the point? Controller less motion control with a controller. Why not just use the sticks to move around?
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Project NATAL and Milo: Evolution of Gaming or Downfall of Humanity? 10 years 6 months ago #370683

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Decipher;370518 wrote:
The PS2 eyetoy and 360 vision cam could only recognize your 2D shape and therefor is nothing like Natal, which has two cameras to interpret 3D space. If you'd watched the demo's closer, you'd see that you can actually swing your arms forward to get more power in your hit.
I was saying that the demo they showed with the dodge ball breakout was eye toy 360 vision tech. Natal uses two cameras and the PS3 uses lights on a controller to map in 3d space the only difference is a controller which is necessary for some applications in the first place. Both of these are steps above and beyond the wii in terms of motion control. The PS3 camera in conjunction with the lit controller can see you swinging forward backward and in between using the 2d image from the camera and the reference points of the lights on the controller. I keep hearing that natal could simply allow you to use the 360 controller but then we are back to where we started and the two techs are the same. Either way it's still a wait and see thing, I just find it hard to believe natal's tech is going to be as good as gluing ping pong balls on a latex suit when it comes to tracking motion. Clothing, lighting, speed of motion, all of these things will affect the tracking. Bah I am done here I hope it's all you guys think it will be. I can't wait to try it but I am not a believer just yet.
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Project NATAL and Milo: Evolution of Gaming or Downfall of Humanity? 10 years 6 months ago #370699

  • Lnin0
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Sony and Microsoft have far different techs here. Sony's is basically a mocap ball stuck on a wand. Microsofts is an entire mocap suit without the suit. Without any additional add-ons glasses, headband or wandhat, NATAL is able to do head tracking and a lot of cool stuff. What about driving with a FF wheel in front of you but NATAL is used to track your head movement. You look to the left and check to see if someone is coming up along side of you. You look through the corner and not just straight ahead. Or how about a FPS or RPG where you are using the controller to move your body and shoot but your head to actually look around. Want to look at the ledge up to your left while still shooting at the guy on the ground in front of you, you can do that now. Or how about not holding any wand or controller and just wanting to sit in the chair and flip through your dashboard by using gestures?
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Project NATAL and Milo: Evolution of Gaming or Downfall of Humanity? 10 years 6 months ago #370703

  • Bloodburn
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Lnin0;370699 wrote:
Sony and Microsoft have far different techs here. Sony's is basically a mocap ball stuck on a wand. Microsofts is an entire mocap suit without the suit. Without any additional add-ons glasses, headband or wandhat, NATAL is able to do head tracking and a lot of cool stuff. What about driving with a FF wheel in front of you but NATAL is used to track your head movement. You look to the left and check to see if someone is coming up along side of you. You look through the corner and not just straight ahead. Or how about a FPS or RPG where you are using the controller to move your body and shoot but your head to actually look around. Want to look at the ledge up to your left while still shooting at the guy on the ground in front of you, you can do that now. Or how about not holding any wand or controller and just wanting to sit in the chair and flip through your dashboard by using gestures?
The problem with NATAL is the response rate, there is nearly a full second of visual lag between the player and the game. Most games are not going to be playable like that.With sony's version however, that obstacle has been solved with the near instant reaction time. Its just not full body, just 2 hands.
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Project NATAL and Milo: Evolution of Gaming or Downfall of Humanity? 10 years 6 months ago #370714

  • Decipher
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Wampa_One;370683 wrote:
I was saying that the demo they showed with the dodge ball breakout was eye toy 360 vision tech. Natal uses two cameras and the PS3 uses lights on a controller to map in 3d space the only difference is a controller which is necessary for some applications in the first place. Both of these are steps above and beyond the wii in terms of motion control. The PS3 camera in conjunction with the lit controller can see you swinging forward backward and in between using the 2d image from the camera and the reference points of the lights on the controller. I keep hearing that natal could simply allow you to use the 360 controller but then we are back to where we started and the two techs are the same. Either way it's still a wait and see thing, I just find it hard to believe natal's tech is going to be as good as gluing ping pong balls on a latex suit when it comes to tracking motion. Clothing, lighting, speed of motion, all of these things will affect the tracking. Bah I am done here I hope it's all you guys think it will be. I can't wait to try it but I am not a believer just yet.
Reading Comprehension: Failed.If you'll read back, or even read what you quoted, you'd note that I was talking about the PS2 eyetoy, not the PS3 eye. Yes they're both 2 cameras, but the eyetoy doesn't have enough resolution to acturately guage how large the lights on the controller are, unlike the eye which is "HD".
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Project NATAL and Milo: Evolution of Gaming or Downfall of Humanity? 10 years 6 months ago #370721

  • Kwyjibo
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Bloodburn;370703 wrote:
The problem with NATAL is the response rate, there is nearly a full second of visual lag between the player and the game. Most games are not going to be playable like that.With sony's version however, that obstacle has been solved with the near instant reaction time. Its just not full body, just 2 hands.
Again I have to ask; what information are you basing this on? Where does it say or show that the response time is nesrly a second? How can you comment on a 'problem' with a concept that you haven't tried yet, and that is in early, early development? How about leaving these comments out of the discussion until the exact specs are public and such a thing can be confirmed? Until then all comments on 'lag' are being pulled straight out of your ass (or Sony's PR machine).
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Project NATAL and Milo: Evolution of Gaming or Downfall of Humanity? 10 years 6 months ago #370736

  • Lnin0
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I would like to see where anyone confirms a 'full second' - that is a very long time. Eurogamer had this to say
There's no denying there's a bit of lag between your movements and those of your on-screen avatar. However, the discrepancy is so tiny that it never feels like the lag has cost you a hit.
Secondly it is still a tech demo. Besides, the real use for Natal is going to be head tracking virtual reality and gesture based user interface. A millisecond of lag is hardly going to effect that as much as if you tried to do an entirely motion controlled Street Fighter title where movement was critical to the exact frame. Like I said, you are missing the big picture. Natal is more than capable of offering the WarioWare experience for casual player but for mature based games I see Natal as a supplement for the standard control pad - not a replacement.
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Project NATAL and Milo: Evolution of Gaming or Downfall of Humanity? 10 years 6 months ago #370755

  • Bloodburn
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Watch the E3 display videos of each one, in the ps3 one they even said its a 1:1 ratio multiple times, and clearly visible from the video.the natal one, watch the dude use the virtual painting, when the throws his arms to splash paint on the canvas and notice the lag.
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Project NATAL and Milo: Evolution of Gaming or Downfall of Humanity? 10 years 6 months ago #370779

  • Kwyjibo
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Bloodburn;370755 wrote:
Watch the E3 display videos of each one, in the ps3 one they even said its a 1:1 ratio multiple times, and clearly visible from the video.the natal one, watch the dude use the virtual painting, when the throws his arms to splash paint on the canvas and notice the lag.
Again, sony pr is not my preferred source of information. And the paint demo was clearly set up in such in such a way that the guy had to finish a stroke before it would display. And even then, have you played killzone 2 at all? There is considerable input lag in that game, so by your logic i should be able to deduce from that that the ps3 controller has a big lag problem in every game. It hasn't. By the way, in that same paint demo you used as an example, check the moments he is not actually painting strokes but talking to the audience; the system still picks up his movement and if you see any lag in that then either your TV is faulty or you're imagining things!
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